Man locks adopted son in homemade cell; Prosecutor recused in YNW Melly retrial – TCD Sidebar
In this episode of True Crime Daily The Sidebar Podcast
GiGi McKelvey joins host Joshua Ritter to break down the biggest cases making headlines across the nation. They discuss the conviction of Tim Ferriter, explosive allegations in rapper YNW Melly’s retrial, and Chad Daybell’s upcoming trial.
Tweet your questions for future episodes to Joshua Ritter using the hashtag #TCDSidebar.
Joshua Ritter:
[00:00:10]
Hello and welcome to The Sidebar, presented by True Crime Daily, taking you inside the courtrooms of high profile and notorious cases from across the country. I'm your host, Joshua Ritter. I'm a criminal defense lawyer based in Los Angeles and previously an L.A county prosecutor for nearly a decade. You can find me on Instagram and Twitter at @JoshuaRitterESQ or at joshuaritter.com. We're recording this on Friday, October 13th, 2023.
In this week's episode, the lead prosecutor gets booted from the case and the double murder retrial of rapper YNW Melly. Plus, we discuss the upcoming trial of Chad Daybell for the murder of Lori Vallow's two children, plus the murder of his first wife, Tammy Daybell. But first, breaking news in the conviction of Tim Ferriter. Jurors arrived at a verdict of guilty on all counts of child abuse after Ferriter locked his adopted son in a homemade cell in the garage, in what the media has dubbed the boy in a box case.
Today, we are very excited to be joined by Gigi McKelvey, a frequent crime analyst on NewsNation and the Law and Crime Network, a dedicated true crime enthusiast and host of the true crime podcast Pretty Lies and Alibis, which has a very faithful and interactive following. Gigi, welcome.
Gigi McKelvey:
[00:01:35]
Thank you so much for having me. I'm excited to be here.
Joshua Ritter:
[00:01:38]
Oh, good. We've been looking forward to this, especially when it comes to the Daybell case, which we're going to get to. I know that you really put a lot of work into that. And so I want to make sure that we save time to talk about that. But first, let's jump into our case out of Jupiter, Florida, where a father accused of locking his adopted son in a windowless box inside the garage has been convicted on all counts following a heart wrenching multi-week trial.
Tim Ferriter was remanded into custody after the verdict was read on felony charges of aggravated child abuse, child neglect and false imprisonment. The box that the boy inhabited for hours at a time was eight by eight feet by eight feet, containing only a mattress, a desk, and a bucket which served as his laboratory. Prosecutors utilized video captured on ring cameras from the Ferriter household that they had actually placed inside the box to observe him, which depicted interactions from Ferriter berating his adopted son.
The other Ferriter children also spoke about the treatment the boy suffered, which prosecutors characterized as humiliating, isolating, and cruel. His defense argued that the father acted inappropriately but was not acting with malice in his attempt to parent a child who suffered from severe behavioral issues. Ferriter was previously offered a plea deal, which he declined, reportedly for a two-year sentence, with the stipulation that his wife Tracy also take the plea deal. Tracy will face a separate trial. The date has not yet been set for that. Meanwhile, Ferriter's sentencing is scheduled for November 16th.
Gigi, people felt very strongly about this case. You saw a lot of reaction from folks to the verdict online. What was your reaction? I know you followed this. Do you think the jurors got it right? Did this case offend you as it seemed to offend many people?
Gigi McKelvey:
[00:03:45]
Man, I'll tell you, I bet he's kicking himself today, not taking a two-year plea deal, because now he's facing, what, 40 years. And ironically, he's going to be the one behind a locked door that he can't open. He won't be able to control his lights and he will have no bathroom privacy. So watching karma has been very nice today.
But look, yeah, this jury got it right. When you have a kid that has severe behavioral issues, you have options out there, you have therapists. You even have places these kids can go and be residents at to get intense therapy. You can't just build a box and put them in there and expect anything to get better. It's going to get worse. And I think the jury got it right, man.
What a -- if you remember, this young man on the stand said he didn't think that his dad needed to go to prison, and it was a mistake. So it speaks volumes about the amount of forgiveness that this out-of-control boy, according to the parents, how he is able to extend that olive branch on the stand facing his dad. Man, it's just, I think justice has been served. Curious to see what happens with mom, which I think is going to be probably about the same.
Joshua Ritter:
[00:04:53]
Yeah, yeah. It was really heartbreaking to listen to the child testify because like you pointed out, there wasn't this air of vindictiveness about it. I mean, he seemed to -- it was obvious he didn't like the conditions. He wasn't trying to say that he thought it was right, but he also wasn't trying to demonize his father throughout the whole thing, or his mother, by the way, who's going to face trial for the same charges.
But it is funny that you point that out. The irony in this whole thing is he treated his child like a prisoner, and now he's going to be a prisoner himself. One thing that you pointed out that has been the sticking point to me on all of this is that, I don't think we should lose sight in all fairness of how difficult it can be, for many parents dealing with children who have severe behavioral issues. That is something that plagues a lot of people in this country.
But these people were not destitute. These people were not without any kind of resources. In fact, these people had a garage in their home, which many people don't have and had the means and ability to build something inside of that garage to house their son, who couldn't, they felt, couldn't behave inside of it. My point being, if you've got those kinds of resources, are you telling me you don't have the resources to find some way of handling this situation, short of putting your kid inside of a cage?
Gigi McKelvey:
[00:06:27]
Yeah, exactly. I mean, and I believe I heard the home that they lived in was valued at nearly $1 million. So, like you say, they had the financial means to get this child who desperately needed help from what it seems but chose to take it in their own hands. And then when you watch these videos of the dad going in there and yelling at him and screaming and threatening him, it's kind of like putting a band-aid on a bullet hole. You're not helping at all. You're just -- I mean, you're making it worse.
And so I just feel like this is the right verdict. I hope that he is feeling the heat today because this didn't go on for a day or two or a week. This went on for years. This was a large part of this young man's adolescence, was being isolated and totally helpless, and at the mercy of his parents, who clearly just wanted to contain him in an area where he wasn't a bother. And it blows my mind.
Joshua Ritter:
[00:07:27]
No, it does. When you really start to describe it the way that you have, it starts to get more and more offensive, especially to people who have children, the idea of ever treating your children that way. You make a good point too, that part of the evidence wasn't just the idea of where they had the kid and where he would stay a lot of the time, it was how they treated him while he was there. And there was a lot of evidence, by the way, of their own making. They were recording these videos and speaking to him in just such, it's a way that just showed a true lack of love, to me. It really did not sound like a parent. It sounded like a prison guard talking to a prisoner.
The other thing that I thought was remarkable was the child testified to, he would come home straight from school and go right into this box again. It wasn't like it was a punishment. It was like his living condition. He didn't have the opportunity to come inside the home and see if he behaved. And if he didn't behave, then they had no other resources available to them, and they had to put him inside of this box, which again, I still think is criminal. But at least that would kind of help you to understand what they were dealing with, but they just housed this kid inside of there. What do you think this very decisive verdict means for Tracy, the mother? How do you think this might affect her case moving forward?
Gigi McKelvey:
[00:08:54]
I mean, it's going to be the same set of facts. It's going to be the same video. It's going to be the same testimony. So I would venture a guess that it's probably not going to end well for her either. And that probably became really clear to her yesterday. There is the picture of her crying, and I think they were hugging after the verdict, but I don't know that she was so much sorry for her husband as she is dreading now her own trial where she will face the same charges and possibly the same verdict.
Joshua Ritter:
[00:09:22]
Yeah, yeah. That was -- you don't get to see that often where someone is essentially in court watching a preview of what they're likely going to face. And I agree with you. I think a lot of those tears had to do -- some of those may have gone for her husband, a lot of those had to go for herself. I bet you they're having a lot of discussions with the DA's office about perhaps getting that two-year offer back on the table, considering the amount of time that he is looking at. Really tragic. Really sad case. We'll continue to follow it as Tracy's case moves forward.
Let's move to Broward County, Florida, where in a shocking move, a judge has removed the lead prosecutor in the double murder retrial of rapper YNW Melly, aka Jamell Demons, after defense attorneys allege prosecutors did not reveal that the lead detective, get this, in the case had been previously accused of being willing to lie as he gathered evidence. Jury selection, which was set to begin shortly, has been delayed as prosecutors scrambled to pick up the pieces, according to testimony from an assistant state attorney testifying against the state. She overturned the lead investigator in the case, asking a deputy to lie on his behalf. This is just shocking stuff.
In their conversation, the investigator asked the deputy to testify that he was present when the investigator executed a search warrant outside of his jurisdiction. That search was related to the seizure of a cell phone, which was forcibly taken from Demons' mother in an alleged witness tampering investigation.
When the state assistant attorney heard the conversation, she immediately reported it, though allegedly this information was never shared with the defense. The judge then granted the defense's motion to recuse prosecutor Christine Bradley in an abundance of caution. We should note that the judge did not find that Bradley had committed misconduct but agreed that she couldn't serve as a prosecutor on the case if the defense was planning to call her as a witness regarding the credibility of one of the lead investigators.
Demons stands accused of the 2019 slaying of two close friends following a mistrial in which jurors favored a conviction 9 to 3. In the meantime, hearings are being held to determine how to proceed on the obstruction allegations. Gigi, jump right in. Shocking stuff. It offends me. I'm curious. As a prosecutor, I'm bothered by this. I'm curious how you view it.
Gigi McKelvey:
[00:11:49]
This is a death penalty case with a double murder. I mean, these are the most scrutinized cases before and after trial. And for a lead investigator to, what it seems to me, get frustrated with the person he's interviewing and just kind of throw a warrant at her and try to jerk her phone away shows a loss of control.
You can't do that in any case, much less a death penalty case. I mean, this man's life is on the line. And just to say that they were joking, I mean, I laughed out loud because of all things in the world to joke about, to say to a deputy, hey, you were in there when I served that warrant, it sounds like my 12-year-old could make a better excuse as to getting their hand caught in the cookie jar, so to speak.
Joshua Ritter:
[00:12:33]
Yeah, yeah. You make such a good point. This isn't some low-level crime. We're not talking about a strong-arm robbery or something. Not that that isn't a serious crime, but we're not -- this is the highest level of investigation and prosecution. These should be the most experienced, most reliable, most trustworthy people involved in the investigation and prosecution of this case.
Like you said, it's a death penalty case. And you've got a lead investigator who I have to imagine is experienced, and he's willing to try to press another investigator to lie in the hope, and by the way, it sounds like a tangential issue. It doesn't sound like necessarily an issue that entirely goes to the shooting itself. It's offensive to me because it cuts at the integrity of the system. Right? I mean, that's the whole thing that this should be built upon is the trust that prosecutors, investigators are doing the right thing in their pursuit of justice, even if that means that their case is not going to be as rock solid. And to hear about this kind of stuff just adds to that conspiracy theory fuel that the system is kind of twisted and bent. What do you think?
Gigi McKelvey:
[00:13:56]
I agree. I mean, and you think if he lies about something like this, I mean, the average person might think, what else has this lead investigator lied about throughout the course of this case? I mean, it's insane to me. And just the fact that it seems like he lost his cool because Melly's mother would not answer the questions the way the investigator wanted, he got flustered. The deputy had walked out of the room, and he wasn't even in his jurisdiction.
So it's just to try to cover your tracks and say, hey, cover for me. And then you have somebody on the prosecution team that overhears it and blows the whistle and nothing's done. The defense isn't told about it until after the trial. I mean, it's insane. And regardless of how you feel about whether Melly's guilty or not, he deserves a fair trial.
He deserves for the investigators to handle this case with integrity and honesty and gather their facts and put them before a jury and not try to weasel your way through losing your temper and then trying to have a knee jerk reaction and say, oh, lie for me. You were in there. There were witnesses in there that could have said the deputy was not in there. Not only that, do you have surveillance of this deputy leaving that room and no other deputy coming back in? Very easy to discredit and really just very childish to try to lie about it.
Joshua Ritter:
[00:15:13]
Yeah. So well put. I mean, you're absolutely right. The defendant is entitled to a fair trial. You know what else people are entitled to? The people of that state are entitled to have prosecutors who do their best to do the right thing in their pursuit of justice. And this doesn't serve anyone. It's unfair to the defendant. It's unfair to the people that they represent.
Because now, quite frankly, if this comes out in trial, by the way, that could be hugely devastating to their case. And if they believe, and it sounds like they do, that he's good for two murders, they may be letting a guilty person walk because of their own unforced, stupid errors. It really is offensive. So like you said, or like we talked about, this is they are now in a really quick turnaround to try to reevaluate their team and move forward on this case, because he's not waiving his right to a speedy trial. And I don't blame him.
Gigi McKelvey:
[00:16:14]
Ten days from today, the day we're taping this, ten days, this trial is supposed to start according to his speedy trial rights. And they don't even have a lead prosecutor announced. The judge gave them until Tuesday to do that. So it's going to be a hot mess.
Joshua Ritter:
[00:16:29]
Yeah, not an easy thing to do, by the way. Step into the lead prosecutor role on a case even if you've been involved in it. Yeah.
Gigi McKelvey:
[00:16:39]
A double murder capital trial at that with death.
Joshua Ritter:
[00:16:42]
With a lot of media attention too, by the way. This is being watched by the whole country now to see how you're going to do this time around. Yeah, a lot of really serious closed door conversations I'm sure are taking place in that prosecutor's office right now.
Finally, let's move to Boise, Idaho. I've been looking forward to talking to you about this case. Following the conviction of doomsday mom Lori Vallow, who's expected to be extradited to Arizona to face additional charges, Chad Daybell awaits trial in Idaho. The pair opted for separate trials for charges surrounding the murders of Vallow's children, JJ Vallow and Tylee Ryan, as well as the murder of Daybell's first wife, Tammy Daybell.
Vallow's defense sought a speedy trial, while Daybell's team looked for more time to comb through DNA evidence, including evidence collected from Daybell's property, where authorities uncovered the bodies of Vallow's children. While Daybell wasn't present at Vallow's trial, one of his attorneys was taking notes for Daybell's defense. Daybell is scheduled to face trial on April 1st of next year and could face the death penalty if convicted. Well, Daybell had an attorney present throughout the trial, but I know someone else who was also present. Gigi, tell us a little bit about your experience with this trial.
Gigi McKelvey:
[00:18:06]
It's always surreal for me when I follow a case to actually get to sit in on the trial. I followed this case for years before it went to trial. At every turn, I've gotten to be friends with JJ's grandparents, Kay and Larry Woodcock, and so it's a little more personal for me. Over the years, I felt like I've grown to love the victims in this case, but it was very surreal. It was bizarre at times with her behavior. There were twists and turns that sometimes we didn't expect.
The crime scene photos, I'm going to tell you, they bothered me. I look at crime scene photos. I used to be in the medical field. But these, I tell you I struggled when I got home with those, they just hit me on a different level. But it was interesting to see some new information come out that we had not known.
And I'm really interested to see what else comes out at Chad's trial, because while it's going to be the same set of facts as a whole, there are some things that will be new revealed, such as phone pings at key times during the murders or during conspiracy times where things were being planned. And also, maybe some new witnesses such as Chad Daybell's son Garth, who was inside the home when Chad found Tammy deceased. So I think it's going to be a lot of the same. But then again, we're going to get some new nuggets that may shed some light on the picture as a whole.
Joshua Ritter:
[00:19:25]
I'm glad that you started to talk about that, because that's something I'm interested to hear your thoughts on is how will it be different? How will the prosecution's theory perhaps pivot now that you have a different defendant whose involvement might be at a different level? But one thing that we had talked about, you and I, before we started recording this, was you were present in court when she actually made a statement during sentencing, correct?
Gigi McKelvey:
[00:19:50]
Oh, yeah. Well, it actually came down to the last minute of whether or not she was actually going to take the stand in her own defense. I mean, within a minute of them walking back out, I think they used the explanation of, pretty much, you're going to lose all of your appeals if you take the stand and you're going to be subject to cross exam. And she has no defense. I mean, it's pretty much laid out there what happened. And we knew that she was going to make a statement at the end.
And when she started, even though we knew, we were all so shocked. And to watch the family have to hear her say the kids are fine, the kids are fine. And I've been told by sources very close to her that to this day she feels her kids are fine. They visit her. We're the ones that have it all wrong. But it got more bizarre as she spoke. My dear friend Tammy Daybell. I talked to Tammy Daybell's sister after that statement and she said, I don't know who came to her, but it was not my sister.
So it all was just very Lori Vallow. I've heard that she is still very much into the beliefs that she had the day she was arrested. She thinks she is one of the chosen ones. She thinks that Chad was the brother of Jesus in a past life and all that hogwash. So Chad, I don't know that we're going to get that much of a detached from reality with him. He has not had any mental issues that we know of. It has never been brought up his competency. So I think it's going to be different in some levels.
But man, that courtroom, when she started talking, we all, you could hear a gasp as it went on and you could see the family start to get upset. And then you see somebody put their arms, their hands on top of Tammy Daybell's sister's shoulders as Lori is talking about my dear friend Tammy, who has come to me. She's busy at work on the other side, knowing full well that the plan was to get rid of Tammy so these two could be together. It just, I'm surprised nobody breached that little division and caught a charge for going to town on her as far as the family, because I would not have been able to compose myself.
Joshua Ritter:
[00:22:03]
Wow. Wow. What an incredible, you talk about the drama that takes place inside of courtrooms, and you really cannot imagine the tension. I've been in courts with situations similar to what you described, but it just sounds incredible to have been there. And just like you said, the incredible restraint those people had to have shown to sit through all of that.
But it brings up a point I think is important as far as talking about Chad Daybell's trial. Many people believe, and I want to get your thoughts on this, that the defense in Lori Vallow's case was held back to some extent, that they really couldn't get into the arguments or present the case that they wanted to because she was really controlling that case, that she was telling them how she wanted it done, whether or not she wanted to blame her husband, what things they could argue to the point of, it sounds like they had a long discussion with even keeping her off the stand. I'm curious if that doesn't exist with Chad, if he's a little more savvy to the idea that he's facing the death penalty by the way, do you think we'll see a different tactic and more involved defense this time around?
Gigi McKelvey:
[00:23:27]
Yeah. Lori had some very specific rules for her defense. You don't throw my husband Chad under the bus. You don't throw my dead brother Alex Cox under the bus, who, by the way, is believed to be the one that murdered both the kids and mental health was not to come in. She sees that, I guess, as a weakness with her exalted status. With Chad, I think the thing, she wouldn't throw Chad under the bus. Now, here's what I think. Chad is going to throw her under the bus, and then he's going to back over her again for good measure. It's all bets off.
And I just think that Chad -- I've heard the case against Chad is much stronger than the one with Lori. We know they found DNA from Tylee on a pickax in the shed as far as some other DNA. So he's got a lot more, I think, to fight. She was found guilty on Tammy Daybell's charge, which I thought was kind of the weaker of the charges that were out there against her. So I think that it's got to be all hands-on deck for Chad, and I don't think he's going to be so kind as to not throw his wife or his ex-brother-in-law under the bus.
The other thing, too, John Pryor had a front row seat to Lori's trial. He was there consistently through jury selection, all the way up to verdict, to sentencing. He would come in. He would really watch that jury's reaction to certain things. There were times he looked mortified at these text messages where they're kind of like teenagers trying to be sexy and text messages. It's just very juvenile stuff when they were read out. It sounds different being read in front of a jury and a courtroom full of people, I'm sure, than it looks on a piece of paper.
So it was interesting to see his reaction and his response to certain parts of testimony. But I think he has a little bit of an upper hand because he got a very good rundown, a cliff note version of what the state's case is going to be. So do I think it's going to make much of a difference? Personally, no. I think that Chad's goose is cooked, but we'll see what his tactics are going to be. But I do think essentially they're going to blame Lori and her brother for pulling Chad into this, where I think it was very much a kind of like a match and gasoline.
I always consider them a tornado. These two forces come together and there is a path of destruction that is relentless, and it doesn't stop until it stopped. And that's just how they were. I don't think either one of them were any more guilty than the other. Chad wanted to be a prophet. Lori always wanted to be bigger than she actually was. She wanted to be kind of famous. She was on Wheel of Fortune. She was an extra on Modern Family.
And now, you've got somebody telling her you're a goddess. You're supposed to pick the 144,000 to go to heaven. It fed into everything Lori wanted in a partner and in her own mind. So it's going to be another great trial. It's going to be a lot longer. This is a death penalty case. They're saying at least eight weeks, not including jury selection. So it looks like I'll be in Boise again for quite a while, which is good. It's a great city.
Joshua Ritter:
[00:26:28]
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think we'll get into the the death penalty thing and how that will certainly change the case. But as you were talking, it's funny, maybe not the right word, but it is interesting that her best defense was they all did it. My husband did it. My brother did it. I was bamboozled by this kind of religious thing and followed along, but I had no idea they were going to commit these horrible, horrible murders.
These were my -- I mean, that's a defense that may have caught some traction and she wouldn't allow them to use that. And now I don't think that's as nearly as strong a defense for Chad Daybell to say that he was somehow some hapless victim. And it was obvious he's the one pulling the strings in all of this. And like you mentioned, her connection to Chad's former wife is very tenuous as far as the evidence goes. Obviously, they proved it in court to those jurors, but he's believed to be the actual killer in that instance, correct, of his ex-wife.
Gigi McKelvey:
[00:27:43]
As far as we know, there was some cell phone evidence presented at trial that showed that Lori's brother, Alex Cox, was at a nearby church at the time of the murders. But it is widely believed that Chad was the one who physically killed Tammy, and there's been some discrepancies about how her body was found. And that's why I think that his son Garth is going to get pulled in.
But going back to kind of the blame game, Lori had a much better chance at being successful with the blame game because we know through the years, Lori was never a great mother. We know that by looking at the custody battle with her third husband, who was the biological father of Tylee, Joe Ryan. She subjected Tylee to so much in really an effort just to keep Joe out of her life so she could move on with Charles and not deal with Joe.
But you could say if she had allowed it, okay, maybe she wasn't the best mother, but did she kill her kids before Chad Daybell came in the picture? Everybody who knew her said at the surface, and from what they saw, she was actually a great mother. She took time to deep dive into autism and how to better help JJ to exceed the expectations that had been set on him by doctors and educators. She was very focused, kept the kids clean. Tylee had braces. All these things show a commitment, even if she didn't have their best interests at heart over the years. She never hurt her kids. She really missed the boat in not saying, hey, she just got brainwashed by this wannabe cult leader and things went really bad. But Chad does not have that same luxury of saying that little Lori bamboozled him. It's not going to fly.
Joshua Ritter:
[00:29:22]
Yeah, yeah. When you really get into the weeds on this story as you have, it is amazing. All the interconnected people and mysterious deaths taking place. I mean, like we talked about, she's still facing murder charges in Arizona, so this is not even close to over for her. His trial is coming up. He's facing the death penalty, which, by the way, you talked about how it's going to take much longer.
Jury selection alone is going to take a tremendous amount of time. Because what they do in those instances is they make sure that the jury is what's called death penalty qualified, meaning each one of those jurors will be asked the question of if they felt this person was guilty and that the circumstances warranted it, would they be able to vote for death? And many people, just for their own personal reasons, are going to say no, and those people will be disqualified from that jury for answering that question alone.
So one, the amount of time it takes to go through each of those individuals to ask them that question. And then two, just because of the nature of where people fall on that issue, you usually end up with a far more prosecution, favorable jury at the end of all of it, because you've got now 12 people who are not only saying they could be fair and listen to the evidence, but by the way, if I feel like it's worth it, I will vote for death, if I feel that the circumstances fit this. So that's what we have to look forward to on this whole thing. Any final thoughts on this case?
Gigi McKelvey:
[00:31:01]
Man, it's just the case that seems like it will never end. Like you say, she's going to be extradited for conspiracy to commit murder for not only her fourth husband, Charles Vallow, but also for Brandon Boudreaux, who was her ex-nephew in law. He was shot at by Alex Cox, luckily missed by inches. Her niece was very much involved in this group, so a lot is still to come.
But it's a very convoluted case going all the way back to Charles Vallow, because what is sad is this, in January of 2019, when this all kind of started after she met Chad, it was very rapid that she had to divorce Charles or leave Charles. He's on body cam telling all the things that we heard at trial and at the same time, nobody is taking him seriously. And so could this have been stopped before, maybe even after Charles's murder had they just looked at text messages through the parties and seeing this was a conspiracy, this was a setup. It's just such a sad case when you get to the root of it. But I know the families are ready for some resolution and some time.
And the other thing to note, these children's bodies are still in the possession of authorities. They have not been released all these years later and will not be until after trial. So Kay Woodcock, Annie Cushing, who was Tylee's aunt, Colby Ryan, who was the brother of JJ and Tylee, they've never even been able to properly bury and put these kids at rest. So a lot going on, a lot still to resolve. But hopefully one day we'll get there where they just sort of fade into the prison abyss and we see them when they pop up on some random documentary years later, studying people who fall for things like, I was the brother of Jesus in a past life.
Joshua Ritter:
[00:32:41]
Yeah, I couldn't agree with you more. And thank you for bringing up the names of those family members who are still kind of waiting for a complete justice to be served and being able to just put their loved ones to rest. That's just so traumatic to think about everything they've gone through, and they still have not been able to have proper funerals for those kids. But that's our show. In the meantime, Gigi, thank you so much for coming on this week. It was an absolute pleasure. Where can people find out more about you and your podcast?
Gigi McKelvey:
[00:33:13]
I'm on YouTube, Spreaker, Apple Podcasts, anywhere you get your podcasts and social media. Just look up Pretty Lies and Alibis. I'm kind of all over the place. Would love to have you join. I call my listeners alibiers and have a great group who are passionate for justice, and we just have a lot of really good conversations and just a passion for justice. And not only for criminal cases, but missing person cases as well, try to bring awareness to those who are missed and loved and have seemingly vanished. So we would love to have you hop on board. And thank you so much for inviting me. I really enjoyed these topics with you today.
Joshua Ritter:
[00:33:48]
Oh, thank you. I looked forward to it and I thoroughly enjoyed it as well. And I'm your host, Josh Ritter. You can find me on Instagram and Twitter at @JoshuaRitterESQ or at joshuaritter.com, and you can find our Sidebar episodes wherever you get your podcasts. And we want to hear from you. If you've got questions or comments you'd like us to address, tweet us your question with the hashtag #TCDsidebar. And thank you for joining us at the True Crime Daily Sidebar.
